Apparently, this might happen. The Phillies might be able to acquire the notorious Manny Ramirez– a.k.a. the best right-handed hitter since Willie Mays. This has to be good, right? Right?!?
For those who say “Yes,” the reasons are simple and straight-forward. His stats are mind-boggling. His 162-game averages are as follows: .313 batting average, .409 on-base percentage, .550 slugging percentage, 40 HRs, 132 RBIs. Plus, he always hits in the clutch (probably because he does not recognize the difference between a “big” situation and just another at-bat). As good as Pat Burrell has been, there is no question that Manny is a serious upgrade in leftfield. Plus, Manny has a deep respect for Charlie Manuel, from their days together in Cleveland, so between Charlie and the Phillies contending ways, Manny would probably welcome a shot in Philly.
For those who say “No,” the argument is much more contextually-based and subtle. This year, he has shown to be, at the very least, a minor distraction, and, as some may argue, a cancer, in the clubhouse. Even the hall-of-famer and Red Sox fanatic, Peter Gammons, calls Manny a “tired act,” and blatantly calls him out for being “all about the money” and caring little about his Red Sox “family.” The opponents may also make the financial argument, in that Manny is convinced that his 36-year old body is worth $100 million dollars beginning next year. This brings up another interesting situation for the Phils because if they are going to continue to get production in leftfield, they are probably going to have to shell out big bucks this offseason, be it Manny, Burrell, or another available stud. Or, we may be looking at Jayson Werth hitting 5th next year.
So, what do I think? Honestly, I think it depends on what (other than Burrell) the Red Sox want in return for Manny. If it is a straight-up deal, with maybe a marginal prospect thrown in, I think the Phillies have to do that. If it costs the Phils one of their major prospects (Carrasco, Marson, etc.), then I would probably lean towards the four-year younger Pat Burrell. However, I think if you hooked me up to a lie-detector today and asked me how I would feel with a Manny Ramirez in my outfield, no matter what the cost, I would probably be doing cartwheels. In my lifetime, I have seen three hitters that I legitimately feared whenever they came to the plate against a team for which I rooted–Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, and Manny Ramirez. With all due respect to the Mark McGwires, Ken Griffeys, and Chipper Joneses of the world, it is a different level of fear. And, I think that if the Phillies do have a legitimate shot to land Ramirez, they have to do it.
And, just think how entertaining it would be–on many levels…
From what I’ve read, the Sox actually wouldn’t want Burrell in the deal, which is kind of surprising to me. That brings up the problem of Manny having to play right, which would be an absolutely horrible defensive outfield, but a pretty decent lineup. But I don’t think there’s anyway this trade happens.
Don’t think the trade happens either, but I am glad to hear you mention Manny in the same breath as Bonds and Pujols, a place he deserves to be. Manny is my favorite baseball player of all time, so I feel the need to defend him. I would love nothing more than to see Manny be traded and watch the Red Sox finish third in the division.
I lost a lot of respect for Peter Gammons when I read that article last night. In fact, it leads me to suspect that Gammons is a personal friend of John Henry. Save the b.s. about how noble and accomodating the Red Sox ownership has been, Gammons. Manny has absolutely deserved the money they have paid him and deserves a bit more respect from the Red Sox organization for what he has done for them. Is there any doubt that Boston doesn’t win a single world series (and hence remains a laughingstock) if Manny isn’t there? This is why Boston fans (a group Gammons belongs to) are the worst. Manny should be immortalized in that city and at least deserves to be told whether or not the team plans to pick up his option at the end of the year or let him go. I say, good for him for calling the management out and getting some bargaining leverage if they are going to keep stringing him along for the rest of the next two years. As for the clubhouse cancer thing, sure he shouldn’t have shoved that ticket guy, but I’m the guy was likely being a dick and how does that make you a clubhouse cancer, anyway? With the Youkilis incident, wasn’t everyone pissed off that Youkilis was acting like a baby and Manny was the one to step up and tell him to cut it out? Manny deserves praise for this! Instead, Gammons calls Manny selfish and attacks him personally, accusing him of faking injuries and saying something like “rationality doesn’t come into play when you are dealing with Manny Ramirez.” I would argue that Manny is being completely rational to put pressure on the Red Sox to either commit to him or let someone else give him a guaranteed contract, rather than decide at the end of each of the next 2 years if they want to pick him up. For the greatest Red Sock since Ted Williams and one of the hardest working hitters in the game to be attacked like this is an outrage and an embarassment. Not one mention ever of how Manny is always the first one at the ballpark (player or coach) before every single game? As great as Gammons is, maybe senility is beginning to get the better of him.
Alexi, I love Manny too, but let’s not go too far on this one. Here’s where I agree with you:
–Manny is the best Red Sox since Ted Williams
–Manny is the best right-handed hitter since Mays (though I think Pujols may be better when it’s all said and done)
–the Red Sox would still be World Series-less without Manny
–the thing with Youkilis was overplayed because, for some reason, everyone thinks Youkilis is a great guy (which is often the case with guys who achieve way more than their talent should allow them–people just assume that because they’re overachievers, they are great people, which is often NOT the case)
–Manny is NOT a cancer in the clubhouse; never has, probably never will be
–Red Sox fans have become BY FAR (and I wish I could say this with more expression than just caps) the worst fans in sports
–Gammons is definitely in the pockets of the Red Sox brass, and therefore (like many local-turned-national reporters) has trouble being nationally objective when reporting on his own team
However, here’s what I do not agree with:
–that Manny somehow “deserves” better –> he was, even by baseball standards, amply compensated for his play on the field; not to mention the fact that he did SIGN that contract with the team option for the last two years. Though it is so commonplace in sports these days, it really gets to me when players/teams sign contracts with no accountability if their situation changes. Long-term contracts have risk on both sides (the player may get hurt/not perform OR the player may play better/longer than expected and end up being “underpaid” at the end. But, that is the risk both sides take when agreeing to a long-term contract (for the record, I don’t even want to get into the non-guaranteed contracts of the NFL…)
–that Manny’s attitude and the way he approaches the game does not show up in his performance and his value to a baseball team –> I know that you didn’t say this directly, but it is the implication that I got from your comments. I think that Manny’s freewheelin’ happy-go-lucky attitude is awesome, hysterical, and fascinating. However, part of me DOES believe that he would look at three straight pitches in the 9th inning because he was “mad at the organization.” Part of me DOES believe that he places himself so far above the good of the team that he sometimes can’t even recognize the difference
–that he can be a distraction that, though it may not even come close to negating his performance on the field, it certainly forces you to look at his numbers in a slightly different light than those of a Pujols or an Ortiz or a Jeter or a Rollins, or even, dare I say a Pat Burrell (who gives nothing to the team other than his numbers, but doesn’t take anything away either)
All this being said, however, I think we agree much more than we disagree. And, because of this, I would LOVE to see Manny wears the red pinstripes and seeing what he can do in our bandbox of a stadium.
Somewhat unrelated to this whole situation, but Pujols is without a doubt the best right-handed hitter I’ve ever seen, with Manny and A-Rod behind him. A-Rod should probably be second, but, of course, it’s very hard to look past his numbers in the playoffs, and the fact that Manny has two rings, so I’d go Manny 2nd, A-Rod 3rd. And, of course, Chris Coste 4th.
I agree, Doogan (you were there when I proclaimed Albert Pujols the best player of all-time 2 months into his career), however, I still want Pujols to do it for as long of a period of time as Manny has. When it’s all said and done, I think the list of the best right-handed hitters of all-time will be something along these lines (off the top of my head, so I’m probably leaving some people out):
1. Mays
2. Pujols
3. Manny
4. A-Rod
5. Rogers Hornsby
6. Jimmie Foxx
7. Joe DiMaggio
8. Hank Greenberg
9. Hank Aaron (which will anger Alexi for him being this low)
10. Chris Coste
Here’s a strange question: Why are left-handed hitters so much better? Is it because they have a more natural swinging motion? Is it because most pitchers are right-handed, so that they get the advantage more often? Or, is it just sort of a statistical anomoly? I mean compare the top 10 above to the following top 10 (again, off the top of my head):
1. Ted Williams
2. Babe Ruth
3. Barry Bonds
4. Ty Cobb (all four of these hitters are better than Mays, in my opinion)
5. Lou Gehrig
6. Shoeless Joe
7. Tris Speaker
8. Tony Gwynn
9. Stan Musial
10. Chris Coste (who, I’m sure would be the on this list, if he hit lefty)
I really think it’s just because there’s much more right-handed pitchers. I would also guess that there were even less lefty pitchers back in the day, because there wasn’t as much specialization. You didn’t have teams bringing in a lefty every time Ruth and Gehrig came up after the 6th inning (like Utley and Howard deal with now). And to further this argument, I think Pujols is batting something like .435 vs. lefties this year.
One question this brings up though is, why haven’t there been more great switch hitters? Off the top of my head, the only Hall-of-Famers I can think of are Mantle and Eddie Murray (with Pete Rose worth a mention obviously, even though he isn’t in the Hall).
Oh, and Ozzie Smith was a switch hitter, right? But he didn’t get there with his bat. Roberto Alomar will be another at some point.
I am convinced that all switch hitters would be better off just batting lefty. I know this only from Brian Roberts, who is demonstratably better hitting lefty yet continues to insist on switch hitting. Also, Chipper is a future HOF switch hitter.
Here’s how I would rank the righties, with quotes:
1. Aaron- “I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn’t throw it past me, none of them.” – Hank Aaron
1a. Mays- “I think I was the best baseball player I ever saw.” – Willie Mays
check the career comparison:
From To Yrs G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
Hank Aaron 1954-1976 23 3298 12364 2174 3771 624 98 755 2297 1402 1383 .305 .374 .555 240 73 155
Willie Mays 1951-1973 22 2992 10881 2062 3283 523 140 660 1903 1464 1526 .302 .384 .557 338 103 156
Strikingly similar numbers. Mays was probably the better player. I say Aaron was the better hitter.
3. Manny – “When things are not going so good and you are still getting hits, that when you know you are a bad man.” – Manny
4. Pujols – “I am not a power hitter, I am a line drive hitter with power.” -Albert Pujols
5. A-Rod – “I love Madonna.” – A-Rod
PS – I think when it’s all said and done, Pujols and A-Rod will both be above Manny, but comparing Manny and A-Rod right now, Manny’s batting numbers are actually better, which I was surprised by, so I had to put him above.
haha, great quotes