A shameless setup (but, it’ll be worth it, trust me):
How awful is the current Knicks’ situation?
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Bump… Set…
Damn you Cimmy for baiting me with your set-up question. That being said, clearly there needs to be at least the smallest iota of intelligent conversation on such a Philly-centric blog. I’m anxiously awaiting posts about the Temple Owls Quentin McGrady leading them to numerous DC video game titles and about how excellent John Runyan’s backhair looks in commercials for coffee. Any more “hey we’re ok, we got Gregg Dobbs” posts…and by the by, I liked it way better when we could do this at Burke’s over pitchers…
That being said, as a long-suffering Knicks fan, I think objectively one would say while things are bad in Knicksland they are by no means as bad as everyone makes them out to be. The Randolph acquisition was a good one, providing the Knicks with a front court that is a match-up nightmare on the offensive end. Randolph is a great passer out of the high post, and Curry down low is tough for any team in the East to match up with. While neither is an inspired defender, you have two super high energy bigmen to help out in Lee (who is amazingly underrated and is one of the best energy guys in the league) and Balkman (who is also a lock down defender and great rebounder on both ends). Its funny, before the season I commented to someone that it seemed like Starbury kinda didnt even fit in on his won team anymore. I would have attempted to deal him in the offseason for something, although his contract makes him basically all but unmoveable. Which is too bad, because I like him and always have, but I think you will see him on the Lakers or Clips, or possibly the Cavs in spite of what Bron says based on the Hughes injury, if and when the Knicks buy him out. If he is gonna sit and sulk and play uninspired, better to eat the money and get him out. I think a five of Curry, Randolph, Lee, Crawford and Nate Robinson is a fun, up-tempo squad that can play hard at both ends of the floor, and then you bring QRich in as a shooter, Balkman for energy and your boy Mardy Collins as the third guard and backup point. The team is deep, can score, can D up and is certainly good enough for at least the 6-8 seed in the East. Boston, Detroit, Chicago, NJ, Orlando…then it’s a crapshoot. With or without Starbury this is a playoff team in the East built around two young physical bigs, which means no matter how bad everyone wants to make this out to be, things could be way way worse. They could be the Sixers, for example.
I dunno whether they are gonna fire Isiah or not, but since none of the potential replacements are terribly exciting to me I would see if they could free themselves of the Starbury albatross and play their way out of their current slump and into the playoffs. If the team doesn’t make the playoffs then ok you can him. But if you can him now it gives the built in excuse to whoever the successor is that the team can be bad and its ok. This should be a team in the playoffs this year.
Greg Dobbs was in the playoffs more recently than David Wright. I know, I know, seems impossible, but trust me, I’ve got inside information on this one.
I is that whole squad. They nothing witout STARBURY.
Uh yeah, we have Greg Dobbs and had the best offense in the national league last year, I’d say that means we’re at least ‘ok’.
Hey congrats fellas, the Phils were NEVER a playoff team, required the biggest collapse in major league HISTORY to make the playoffs, and was promptly swept. Awesome job. Have fun at the We Almost Won At Least We Made It Parade. The city has tons of practice throwing that one. Management refuses to spend the money or the prospects to improve the team in any tangible way in spite of one of the biggest markets in the country and a rabid loyal fan-base that fills the beautiful new bandbox stadium for every game. You got a head-case flamethrower reliever whose confidence is so shot he couldn’t get big outs for a Houston team that was out of it all year – seems like the PERFECT fit for a late inning guy in a city full of easy to please fans. Is he better then what you had? Sure, which is not saying much. But nah, keep buying those tickets so your team can not make a play for Arod, Miggy, Johan…you guys are right, you are way better off with the same cast of guys that lucked out and almost remembered making it to the playoffs shouldn’t be the goal, winning the damn thing is. Uh-oh, Kaz Matsui almost just hit for the cycle again…but hey, great Knicks chat.
Are you guys gonna be around for this weekend?
The only thing that keeps me from killing Isiah Thomas and James Dolan is the threat of two consecutive life sentences. And even that is barely a deterrent considering the trial would have to be in New York City and I’m not sure you could find a jury here to convict me. They have systematically turned my beloved Knicks into a disgrace, a team so hopeless and despicable that I can’t even watch them without wanting to throw up. It’s 48 minutes times 82 games of pure, uninterrupted, basketball hell.
The Knicks are the worst team in basketball if you define “worst team” as “furthest away from winning an NBA championship.” Sure, some teams might finish with worst records this year (Seattle, Minnesota, Memphis and Atlanta, I’m looking at you) but I would argue that those teams are closer to winning a championship than the Knicks. First, those teams have some combination of 1) a young player or players you can get excited about (Durant, Jefferson, Gay/Gasol/Conley, Horford; 2) cap space; 3) a good chance to have an absolutely terrible record this year. The Knicks have none of these things. David Lee is promising, but if you’re comparing him to Durant or Jefferson this conversation is over. They have the highest payroll in the league leading to the dual problem of not being able to sign any free agents and not being able to trade any of your players because nobody wants to absorb their terrible contract. And, perhaps worst of all, they have enough “talent” to win 30-35 games, significantly reducing the possibility that a franchise changing player (Duncan/Lebron) will be delivered by divine ping pong ball. It’s the perfect storm of terrible.
Plus, on top of all that, they have the stupidest owner/president/coach in the history of professional sports. Notice I didn’t say “worst.” Dolan has at least shown that he’s willing to spend (waste) money on the team, which potentially makes him a “better” owner than some. But Dolan and Isiah can go stupid for stupid with anyone who ever owned, managed, or coached a professional team. You have to bow down in awe of their unwavering stupidity.
Isiah put together a team that has absolutely no chance to play well together. If you were intentionally trying to put together a team that had no chance of playing together could you do better than: 1) A selfish point guard with character problems who plays no defense (Starbury); 2) A streaky selfish 2 guard who plays no defense (Crawford); 3) A selfish 3 who does nothing well and plays no defense (Richardson); a fat selfish power forward with character problems who plays no defense (Randolph); and a fat selfish center who plays no defense (Curry). And, just for good measure, Isiah proclaims to want to run a fast-break, up-tempo system. Are their any two guys you’d want on the court less than Randolph and Curry if you’re trying to run that kind of system? Me neither. And let’s not even discuss the horrible cap-killing contracts he’s handed out/absorbed: Jerome James, Malik Rose, Maurice Taylor, Steve Francis, Jerome Williams, Vin Baker, Eddie Robinson.
Now, if the on court horror show that is the Knicks was the extent of the damage you might be able to keep your sanity as a Knicks fan. But no. As it turns out, the on court horror is only the tip of the iceberg. You also have to put up with the off-court embarrassment of rooting for a team filled with and run by despicable people. Let’s start with the most recent. In an effort to distract from his incompetence Isiah benches Marbury. In response, Marbury reportedly threatens to blackmail Isiah (“He has to start me, you have no idea what I have on Isiah”), leaves the team, flies back to New York, gets roasted in the media for a day, and then rejoins the team in LA. Isiah puts to a team vote the issue of whether Marbury should be allowed to play against the Clippers. The team votes no. Isiah plays him 34 minutes anyway (why even have the vote?), Marbury badly misses a 3 to tie the game with 14 seconds left and, with 6 seconds left, drives through the lane for a layup even though the team is down 3! Foul with 3 seconds left, two made free throws, and the Clips win by three. You can’t make this stuff up.
Then there’s a little thing called the Isiah Thomas sexual harassment trial where we learned from Isiah that: 1) It’s perfectly okay for a black man to call a black woman a *itch but it’s not okay for a white man to do it. 2) He repeatedly said “*itch, I don’t care about those white people” (the aforementioned “white people” being the Knicks season ticket holders – because, you know, the fans aren’t alienated enough). How obvious was it that Isiah sexually harassed Sanders? The best defense his attorney (by all accounts a bright experienced attorney) could muster was to claim Sanders could not be believed because she said Isiah invited her “off-site.” As explained by said defense attorney: “Off-site, that’s an interesting choice of words for someone to use. Not particularly romantic.” Sexual harassers, you see, are well-known romantics. They often spout sonnets and quote Shakespeare between groping women and viewing pornography.
Perhaps the most surprising part of the trial was when a Knicks intern testified to having sex with Marbury while drunk in a truck outside a night club. I learned that from the New York Post which, in an article about the state of the Knicks, informed us of that little tidbit in paragraph 16. Think about that for a second. Your home town paper is running a story about how despicable and embarrassing your team is and the fact that your star player testified under oath to having sex with a drunk intern in a truck outside a night club doesn’t make the first 15 paragraphs. Truth be told, until Marbury took the stand himself and confirmed the intern’s account, Isiah’s defense attorneys had me convinced that she was a bald faced liar. After all, drunk sex in a truck outside a nightclub…not particularly romantic.
Dolan, for his part, was superbly stupid. He took the stand and basically rambled for an hour about how he is the decision maker at MSG and Sanders was fired for crossing him. He came across as a hot-tempered, reactionary, petulant, spoiled little brat which is exactly who he is as a person (the term “man” is way too charitable for Dolan). The result? A $12 million Plaintiff’s award including punitive damages.
Only Dolan would have stuck with Isiah this long – through all the evidence of his sheer idiocy. His killing the CBA, the losing, the atrocious contracts, the humiliating off-court behavior, the contant negative press, the fan base nearly rioting at home games. It’s so bad that if Knicks fans found out that Isiah really hated the Knicks, and was blackmailing Dolan somehow so that he could be team President and destroy them, nobody would be surprised. The Post would probably run it in paragraph 16.
If Dolan and Isiah were just shockingly stupid, you’d almost feel bad for them. It’s the accompanying arrogance that makes it so frustrating for us Knicks fans. It’s Dolan and Isiah trying to explain that they’re really very successful and you can only think otherwise because you don’t understand basketball as well as they do, that makes me want to kill them. They’ve destroyed one of the best franchises in professional basketball, a team that I grew up loving, and I absolutely hate them for it.
and……spike. well said, stri
You’re right, Ian. Everyone should only root for teams that have the player payroll to get A-Rod or Santana. Good call.
And, oh yeah, Kaz Matsui had a great series and beat us. We’re just crying all the time about that. How are you feeling about this:
Was that Mets ‘worst collapse in major league history’ aided at all by the Phillies beating them ALL SEVEN TIMES they played them over the last 5 weeks of the season.
Matsui’s bad for us. Yup. How’s this for you:
August 29th: Phils 9, Mets 2
August 28th: Phils 4, Mets 2
August 30th: Phils 3, Mets 2
August 31st: Phils 11, Mets 10
Sept. 14th: Phils 3, Mets 2
Sept. 15th: Phils 5, Mets 3
Sept. 16th: Phils 10, Mets 6
They ‘lucked out’, huh? Yeah, that looks like luck. No other explanation there.
How about the last week of the season. A team with a big, fancy payroll using Aaron Sele and some guy named Muniz with the season on the line, having Philip Humber make his first career start, being completely owned by Joel Piniero, getting beat by Byung-Hyung Kim, and, of course, the illustrious end to the Tom Glavine era. Hey, if sitting around gazing at pictures of Kaz Matsui hitting a grand slam is what get’s you through the day, I understand.
Oh dear god. You’re still chirping about the Phillies first good season in like 25 years? The guy made a Gregg Dobbs joke and it was actually kind of funny. Way to start a holy war. Doogan, congrats man: You’ve handled your team’s first good season in a very long time with less class than anyone I’ve ever seen…and I’ve lived around Yankees fans my whole life.
And it’s true, we have to deal with this:
August 29th: Phils 9, Mets 2
August 28th: Phils 4, Mets 2
August 30th: Phils 3, Mets 2
August 31st: Phils 11, Mets 10
Sept. 14th: Phils 3, Mets 2
Sept. 15th: Phils 5, Mets 3
Sept. 16th: Phils 10, Mets 6
And you have to deal with this:
1883-1979, 1981-2007.
Yeah Doogs, I forgot you root for KC…oh wait, Philly has the ability to have a top payroll and ownership that doesnt care enough to spend the money. Thats got to fun to root for. And by the by, I never said the Mets didnt collapse, I actually said they did. They lost to lots of terrible teams down the stretch – the Phils were just one of them. The Phils never quit, thats the one thing I can say about them. They needed all the help in the world to get in and made it on the last day. So as I said, congrats. Making it is good enough I guess and you are no closer to winning. But spare me the “big market teams are bad” crocodile tears, man. We both know better. Not spending the money cuz you are selfish is not the same as not having the money. Kind of an important distinction. God knows 3b and starting pitchin have been such positions of strength the last few seasons…
Cim obviously your question was just to have Stri rant, which while amusing to read I disagree with. Wow NBA Players have sex with interns and cheat on their wives?! My god I am shocked. And hey lets concentrate on some BS court case and pile on and ignore the fact that Isiah has year after year turned those “useless” draft picks into productive quality cheap young NBA players (Lee, Robinson, Collins, Balk) On the court I’ll take two young bigs, two energizers in Lee and Nate, and either a shooter in Quentin or a young scorer in Crawford. With a good bench. Like I said I would cut ties with Steph for the good of the group. Objectively, I was excited for the season as it started for the Knicks. Things have gone bad but the season is young. It could be way worse – the Knicks could be the Sixers.
Stri, I didn’t, and never do, throw the first stone. I just don’t think Mets fans are in a position right now to be starting arguments about the Phillies sucking, and the Matsui thing is a low-blow. I just responded in kind. It wasn’t directed at you, but that’s probably just a coincidence.
And Ian, I didn’t play the ‘big market teams are evil’ card. I’m just saying, what are we supposed to do, stop rooting for the Phillies just because their holding back a bit with their payroll? It is frustrating at times, and I specifically put the blame on the ownership in my post yesterday. But I don’t think a $100 million payroll is grounds for dis-owning a team.
And one other thing, me and Ian wouldn’t know how to talk to each other if it wasn’t heated Philly vs. New York debates. A holy war is the norm.
Yeah for serious, Doogan and I pretty much say hello, grab a drink and start battling about something. Like I said, I would prefer it over a few pitchers at Burke’s yelling in person is way more fun then yelling at a computer screen.
Ian – I think you missed one of the points of the “rant.” Richardson, Curry, Marbury, Crawford, – arguably all decent NBA players in their own right…who have absolutely no chance of playing well together. This isn’t fantasy basketball. It’s actual basketball.
Collins is useless. Lee was a great pick. Balkman was a good pick at 17. Robinson is another good pick if you need a shoot first point guard, which the Knicks don’t.
Tell you what. Let’s ignore the BS court case and focus on the fact that year after year Thomas’ team has gone:
33-49
23-59
33-49
39-43
and are off to a 2-7 start this year.
You are what your record says you are my friend.
Plus, they’re way over the cap, in large part, because of the horrific contracts I listed above which were all Isiah’s doing.
After 5 years of tinkering with the roster, that’s an unmitigated disaster.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2007/11/20/2007-11-20_jim_dolan_still_listening_to_isiah_thoma.html?page=0
I just want to point in to correct Stri, that the drunk intern had sex with Marbury outside of a *strip* club – not just a normal club. She was there with her friends for a birthday party. Why do I not hang out with girls who think an awesome idea for a chick’s birthday party is to watch naked chicks dance for money?
In any case, if you are looking for something “romantic” – snagging a drunk intern in the parking lot of a strip club might be it. At least that’s the line I’m using on chicks these days.